How Normal Folks Change the World: Q&A with Bill Courtney

Episode 82: Pocket Change Podcast

What is the true role of a coach?

According to Courtney, coaches should be servants at heart. They ought to take responsibility for caring for their team and helping meet their needs. These skills not only translate into the football field but also transfer to life. 

A key question for a coach to ask is, “What are you trying to win?” There is so much more to sports than just winning a game.  

"I think the greatest coaches are servants," said Courtney. "They're the ones who give credit to...the kids." 

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Full Transcript

Carrie:

Hey, this is Shea, and this is Carrie.

Shea:

Welcome to the Pocket Change Podcast.

Carrie:

Where you'll learn better ways to spend, save, and invest and take control of your financial journey.

Shea:

So Carrie, today our guest, you may have seen him in his Oscar winning documentary. May have seen him on the football field, but he's a, you know, a great leader, inspiration in the greater Memphis area and even throughout the country… just down to earth and talking about how everyday people can do extraordinary things.

Carrie:

That's right. I actually listen to his podcast and it's great as well. He's very inspiring and I can't wait to hear what all he has to say about the things that he's doing in the Memphis area.

Shea:

He's just going to motivate us all to take one step. What can we do as individuals to serve our community and help others?

Carrie:

That's right.

We're excited to welcome our guest, Bill Courtney, host of the Army of Normal Folks Podcast. Welcome to Pocket Change, Bill.

Bill Courtney:

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Carrie:

Yeah, so many people know pieces of your story, but not many know the full journey that you've had. Can you take us back to the beginning, to your childhood?

Bill Courtney:

Wow. Do you have a four-hour podcast? I guess the Reader's Digest condensed version is... I grew up in Memphis. Grew up in apartments. My mom did the best she could. My father left when I was four. I had no relationship to him. And he passed away. I don't know, about a year ago. And I got a call 2 or 3 weeks after he was buried that he was dead. And that's kind of symbolic of my total relationship with him. Mom was married and divorced five times. My fourth father took out a pistol and shot down the hallway at me one night. So I grew up with a lot of dysfunction and trauma. The good men that were in my life, my army of normal folks who supported me were really my coaches. So I lettered in six sports in high school. My athletic director said I was a try-athlete. I'd try anything. And so I went on… graduated from Ole Miss. I came home, all I ever wanted to do was coach, because I saw that as a calling, because I knew how important the men that coached me were to me in my own life. And I started coaching and teaching for a living. I met a woman. I'm a, I'm a four at best. Those of you who are watching this on video and that audio can see that I'm not lying and I'm married. I married a straight up ten and she's not blonde. And I was worried about keeping her around the house. So we just started having kids, and I had 4 in 4 years and four kids and four years on a coach’s and teacher’s salary of $17,000 a year wasn't getting it. So I got out of coaching as an occupation, but it remained my passion. So I went to Nashville and took a bunch of classes to become what's called a certified non-faculty coach, which you can do in the state of Tennessee, which covers you under all the insurance. It's not like a dad volunteering on the sideline. You're actually a considered an employee of the of the district, but you're not an employee of the district. And so I've continued coach football for 36 years while building my business. And in 2001, when I was 31 years old, I started a business and had $17,000 in the bank and four kids in diapers. And that business now does… We did about 82 million in sales last year. I've got 130 employees. I do business in 42 different countries, and I've done that while also continuing to coach and pursue my passion there. So I don't know if that answers your question. There's a lot of between that. But that gives you the overview, I guess.

Carrie:

Yeah. It's great.

Shea:

And you know, coaching that's your passion played a big role in your life up till now for the last 35 years. What is it about coaching that's become, you know, such a passion for you, serving the kids or seeing that and your own story? Tell us a little bit more about that.

Bill Courtney:

I just think if you do it right… there's a lot of people who coach because they like the title. There's a lot of people who coach because they love the competitiveness, and there's nothing wrong with those things as long as that's not the motive. I think the greatest leaders of our time served in order to lead. If you think of Martin Luther King, if you think of Gandhi, if you think of Christ, the greatest leaders of our time served in order to lead. And so I think the greatest coaches are servants. They're the ones who give credit to the credit, to the credit to the kids. When they do well, they're the ones who stand up in front of the team when the team doesn't do well and say, it's on me. They're the ones who find out what the dreams and goals are of their kids, and try to help them be realistic and reach those realistic goals. And they're also the ones that understand the kids fears and inhibitions and seeks to help them deal with that and quell them. And I think a coach is really important that you know your X's and O's, but I've never seen a coach make a tackle. I've never seen a coach score touchdown. Actually, I think back in the 60s, an Ohio State coach came up with sideline and made a tackle, but that was illegal. So I'm never seen a coach make a legal tackle. I've never seen one score a touchdown, kick a field goal, throw a pass, any of it. Players win games. So I think players win games and coaches win players. And the way you win players is by serving them, holding them accountable, talking about the tenets of character and commitment, integrity, the dignity of hard work, the value of showing up on time and hold kids accountable. Those tenants teach them... Walk in a way of life that you illustrate to them and serve your kids that way. And if you do, then the lessons that they learned on a football field should last them long after the days of playing ball are over. That was my experience because I had coaches like that to served me in that way. And so the reason I'm so passionate about it is I think it's a conduit to how you help young men to avoid toxic masculinity and become the type of young men that God designed and to be. And I also think those very fundamentals translate very well to being a father, to be in a spouse, to being a business owner, to be in a manager and how you interact with your family and your community.

Carrie:

That's very impactful. What you said, it makes me think, you know, you're not just a coach of the sport, but you're a coach of life. And in the principles that you coach them on and teach them, go with them throughout their whole life. So they learn so much more than just about the sport.

Bill Courtney:

Wouldn't you rather have a team win two games and lose eight with a bunch of kids that are going to go on and become productive members of society? Then when a state championship with a bunch of dip heads that are going to end up in jail?

Carrie:

Absolutely.

Bill Courtney:

It is about as a coach, you have to ask yourself, what are you trying to win? And I believe you win, kids. But I also believe if you win kids and you create a team of like-minded kids adhering to very fundamental tenants and principles, that they'll go win ballgames. So I think when you put winning ball games first and other stuff second, you're losing and failing your team. If you if you put those fundamentals first and win them, not only will they win ball games, they're going to go win in life. And I also genuinely think that's the same way you need to treat your employees, your vendors, your customers and the people in your orbit. It just that fundamental belief set as served me well.

Shea:

It's people. People over profit or, you know, productivity, putting people first. So I think that's even a model a lot of credit unions have. And so, you know, we can resonate with that whether it's faith related or in business or, you know, in sports. So just putting people first, I think so important.

Carrie:

So you haven't mentioned yet about your documentary Undefeated. Could you tell us a little bit about that? I know you're an Oscar winner for that.

Bill Courtney:

Listen, I'm a football coach and I owe a lumber company. I'm a spouse and I'm a father, and I live in Memphis. That's who I am. And going into what ended up being my last season at Manassas. Three weird dudes from LA who were 30 years old, wearing skinny legged jeans and scarfs, which nobody in Memphis does, shows up with some cameras. And they had a they had some contracts for ESPN to do some of those 30 for 30 shorts. And they knew a little bit about the story of us working with Manassas. When we got to Manassas, there were only 17 kids on the team, and their previous ten years record was four wins and 95 losses. Terrible. So seven years later, we got 75 kids on the team. The previous season we went ten and one. And so, but more importantly, the demographics from Smokey City and New Chicago and Greenlaw, which are the communities that the kids that go to Manassas come from, is an 18 year old male is three times more likely to be dead or in jail, by his 21st birthday than he is to have a job… three times more likely. That's not saying that three out of four kids are dead or in jail by 21. It's just the stats are an 18 year old male is three times more likely to be dead or in jail by his 21st birthday than it is to have a job. And that last year we graduated 18 seniors and 17 went to college. So the work we were doing on a football field, also employing all the tenets of values we talking about were working. And so they came to do a little film on that. After they learned some of the kids and me and some other stuff, they said, we're not selling this to ESPN, we're going to make a movie. So they follow us around for eight months and go back to Hollywood, and they say they're going to make a movie. Now just think, if somebody said that to you, all right, I mean, okay, whatever. We'll see this on channel 532 at three in the morning some Wednesday night. And that was it, right. And a year later, I'm walking down the red carpet at the Academy Awards with George Clooney.

Carrie & Shea:

Wow.

Bill Courtney:

Just the weirdest, you know, happenstance. It also, I think, speaks to this so much of the stuff that is produced out of Hollywood today is so entrenched with some political viewpoint. The characters are now written in a way that they are supposed to make some social impact statement about how they speak or who they interact with. And I mean, it's, and it's off putting to half the country. And as a result, people assume a lot about Hollywood and their socio economic and cultural beliefs, arts and political beliefs. Undefeated has nothing to do with any of that stuff, and it actually flies in the face of some of the preconceived notions surrounding race in the South. Yet, it still won the Academy Award, which speaks to the value of the fact that as Americans, we still love a good human interest story because Undefeated is really not about football. It's about people, and football is the backdrop. So when it won, there was this weird opportunity to do commercials and TV shows and speeches, and I wrote a book and all of that, and Lisa and I really talked about it shortly after the Academy Awards and said, all right, look, we're not moving to Hollywood. We're not doing all this stuff that all these people want us to do. But if this gives a platform to talk about some things that I think that matters in society, we'll use that platform to have those conversations. So I wrote a book called Against the Grain. It talks about all these fundamentals, and I do speeches all over the country. And I have a podcast. It's all direct result of those three goofy guys seeing a story they thought that that people would like, but in no way… You said, I don't talk about it much, I don't. I’ll answer questions when I'm asked about it, but I don't tell anybody about it. I mean, if that defines me, then all of the things I've been talking to kids about for the 36 years is crap. And I'm the biggest hypocrite on earth. So happy to talk about it. It doesn't define me. The blessing of it is not a statue. The blessing of it is the platform that's given me an opportunity to talk to a wide audience about things that I think that matter.

Carrie:

That's right.

Shea:

I know a lot of that... Like you mentioned, working with students and coaching has a lot to do with service responsibility in that mindset. But that kind of, I think morphs into, you know, the army of normal folks, the podcasts and now the service club. So you want to talk a little bit about that and how that all came to be.

Bill Courtney:

Sure! I mean, like I said, I've been on Ellen DeGeneres, I've been on Jimmy Kimmel, I've been on Kelly Clarkson's show, I've been on all I mean, I've been interviewed by, you know, I've been on Fox and CNN and all this stuff.

Shea:

Pocket Change Podcast!

Bill Courtney:

That’s right! I get interviewed a lot. All right. And so simply, about three years ago, I was being interviewed for a TV show, and during the interview, I was particularly exercised that day because I get pretty frustrated with stupid stuff that goes on in the country, and they ask me what's going to fix the proverbial “it”, you know, what's going to fix it? And we all got around saying, what's going to fix it, you know? And I said, you know what? There's not a city in the country where there's a viaduct or a road that you're driving down that you think, I don't want to have a flat tire here? In Jackson, that's somewhere around where that old flooring plant used to be. But there are places. And you think, Lord, because you think if I have to get out of my car and change the car here, I'm going to get mugged. It's just bad places. And you, so you recognize the poverty, you recognize the despair. You recognize the disenfranchisement. You recognize the degradation of that area of society, and you don't want to have to get out of your car there. And then when you pass by safely, you look down that road, or you peer over the edge of that viaduct and you think, man, I'm glad my car made it. But then you have this empathetic response where you think somebody had to do something about that one day. My question is, who the hell is somebody? The government? I think they've proven woefully inadequate the last seven decades of caring for the most disadvantaged among us. If anything, their paternalistic and have created all kinds of policies and structure that tends to keep people in the place that they are. So who's somebody? And my suggestion is, maybe we kick that rearview mirror to the left about 15 degrees and look at ourselves and recognize that if we're really about “we the people”, I guess that somebody is us. And the very blessings that provided you the car to be cruising by all that disenfranchisement in my mind, requires… It's not a nice thing to do. It's a requirement of those blessings. It's a requirement of all of the gifts we've been given to raise up the least advantaged among us. And I said that in this interview. So the guy that interviewed... He called me back, six months later and said, “hey, man, do you really feel that way?” And I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't have said it. He said, “Well, I want to start a podcast where we find normal people from all over the world doing exactly what you're talking about doing, and you interview them and call it an army, normal folks.” And I said, okay, what's a podcast? I never heard of a podcast. So anyway, we started about three years ago, and within seven weeks we were number ten on Apple. And it has grown and grown and grown. And about seven months ago, the whole podcast whole enterprise was bought by the Stand Together Foundation at DC.

Shea:

Wow.

Bill Courtney:

And now we're partnering with them and they've started An Army Normal Folks service clubs. And in only five weeks we've had 1200 people sign up. And the first six clubs are in Atlanta, Memphis, New York, Wichita and some other cities. And the service clubs are simply normal folks who want to get together, figure out a way to serve their community series, and need employ their passions and their abilities. And those are your needs and start to be part of the who's going to fix the proverbial “it”.

And so we tell stories about people who are doing it. We illustrate how to do it. And then now we've actually converted.. well not converted, but also added to the mix of the storytelling in the podcast itself, clubs where people can actually not just listen about it but get off their *** and do something.

Shea:

Activate it. Right. Yeah.

Carrie:

So it sounds like you're an amazing leader yourself, but I'm just curious what you think makes a great leader.

Bill Courtney:

The ability to listen, you simply cannot lead people. You don't understand, and you can't understand people without listening to them, to hearing. There's a great story about a village in Africa. This is a true story. This is not metaphorical, that people were dying at a young age because they didn't have access to healthcare. And they had a mountain road that with a with a clinic that they built for these people at the bottom of the road. But the problem was people, the mountain road was treacherous and people were falling off the edge of the road and dying. And so they quit going to the clinic. So they bought ambulances and busses to go up the road, catch people, bring them down the clinic and bring them back. But what they didn't understand is many of the tribal people up there didn't… were afraid of the ambulances that wouldn't get in them. So literally today at the bottom of the clinic, you'll see four brand new ambulances sitting with weeds growing all over. And they did all this stuff telling these people how to save themselves. And the clinic was about shut down because nobody would come to it. And they went up and talked to the chief, and the chief said, you know, if you just put a fence around the edge of that road, people will walk down the road. And now the clinic is bustling.

Carrie:

Really.

Bill Courtney:

The point is, toxic philanthropy looks like leaders or toxic leadership looks like leaders going in and thinking they have all the answers and telling everybody what's going to happen when. If you really want to know how to make any organization or anything you want successful, just ask the people that are doing it every day and shut up and listen to them. So listening. Being empathetic. Setting clear, very clear rules and guidelines, fairly holding people accountable to those guidelines and serving. And I think the best leaders do those things.

Carrie:

I love that.

Bill Courtney:

There's is one other very important part of leadership that I think we miss a lot. And that's motive. And I was taught that lesson by an 18 year old kid from the hood. And when, when I first arrived at Manassas, like I told you, they were 4 and 95 and only had 17 kids on the team. So it was time to coach some football, right? And we started coaching football. And halfway through the season we're three and three, and I think three and three is pretty average. But you know, when you're three and three against the backdrop of 4 and 95, they thought I was a fat red headed version of Lane Kiffin or somebody. Right. They were buying in, yes or no sir on the football field. And at the same time, we started to notice very early on the absence of fundamental values. And so we also started coaching the important stuff character, commitment, integrity, all that. So halfway through the season were three and three and the whole team was yes or no sir with the football, but only half the team was buying into that important stuff, the stuff that was going to last a long after the game was over, right? And it frustrated me. So I went to my guy. Every coach, especially every first-year coach, has to have a guy that was kind of your conduit, right, to the rest of the team. And so I went to him. I said, hey, man, what do I got to do to get that half the team to buy in an important stuff, like you're half the team. I mean, you're all good on football and I appreciate it and, you know, respectful and doing what I demand. And we're winning and you're improving and it's showing. But I want to improve it a lot more than the game. What do I got to do to get the other half team to buy in the important stuff like your half? And I expected a pretty clear answer from him. Instead, I got that dismissive tone, if you have kids, you know it. It's like… and he said, ah coach, just keep doing what you're doing. And I'm like, no man. What, what? Come on. Talk to me. And he's like, coach, I really don't want to hurt your feelings. And I said, bro, you are not going to hurt my feelings. I'm a grown man. I grew up fat and redheaded. There's nothing you can say to me that I hadn't said before. Everything's good. I said. Why can't I get that half the team to buy into the important stuff like you're after? And he said, coach, they're trying to figure out if you're a turkey person or not. I'm like, man, what are you talking about? He said, coach, everything's given at Christmas. People roll into our neighborhoods and they give away gifts and hams and turkeys. And, I mean, we're going to take them because we ain't got none. But then they leave and we never see him again. And it really makes you wonder if they're doing that because they really care about us, or they're doing that to make themselves feel good. He looked me dead in the eyes and he said, man, coach, really, what are you doing down here? And I just want to say that if you serve soup and soup kitchens or turkeys, give turkeys to the needy on Thanksgiving or you have a toy drive for poor children. That's a beautiful thing, man. But the story is not to disparage that work. The moral of the story is this… what's your motive? Are you motivated by the simple edification of someone who's not as blessed as you all? Are you doing it because everybody in your community thinks you're great for helping the poor folks, and they're slapping you on the back and telling you what a great person you are. Are you doing it because your organization has a drive and you know you better be part of it so that you're still up for the next promotion? Are you doing it because of some reasons that actually serve you, rather than serving the people you are supposedly serving? People will take what you have and they will smile big and say yes or no, sir when they don't have anything. But if they see your motive not properly aligned toward them, but towards yourself, the minute you turn and walk away, their smiles leave and they stare darts through your back because they know you're a fraud. So when it comes to leadership and service and your businesses and your families and everything else, you have to check yourself and say, what is motivating me to do this work and make sure the motivation is aligned. Because if you're not, there's going to be some people in certain parts of the world that think you're a turkey person. And what a valuable lesson for me, because the truth is, among my contemporaries, when people were seeing articles in the paper about Manassas, winning three games and four games and reading stuff about all the work we were doing down there… it did make me feel good when people walked up and said, man, I can't believe what you're doing, Bill, and slapped me on the back. So the truth is, I was a little bit of a turkey person, and I quickly thought about all of that and started anytime anybody I asked me about Manassas, started talking about what the kids were doing. Anytime he asked me about the US, I was telling him what they were doing. I started giving credit to the followers and anytime anything went bad, I stood up and said, this is on me. And I shielded them from the bad stuff, i.e. I served them. And then all of a sudden, all those kids that weren't paying attention to the important stuff started coming into the fold because they started understanding that I was motivated by their success, not my own.

Shea:

Yeah.

Bill Courtney:

That's the story of a turkey person.

Carrie:

I love that.

Shea:

Yeah. You talked about, you know, serving as a coach. And you know, that's the best way to lead us through serving. So that's so important. And really the servant leadership is leadership. I don't think there are two separate things. You know we hear the term servant leadership. And you have you have to be a servant leader to be a leader. I think it's one and the same, that is leadership. So, you know, a lot of this, a lot of what we talk about is also related to on this podcast with other guests. You know, there's financial literacy that is maybe a problem or one of those ways that we look... Oh, someone should do something about that. Why do you think financial literacy is so important for everybody?

Bill Courtney:

I had a player at Manassas. Good kid. Actually, had decent grades. Scored a 21 on ACT. And while in some school systems, 21 is not incredible, in a school system that has the systematic issues that many inner city schools do 21 on act in a case, the person is really pretty bright and ask that kid, well, what led up to it was… these kids, many of them constantly didn't have money for food or bus fare or whatever, but they were wearing $185 pair of sneakers. And I'm like, you can't afford those shoes, and all of them would be like “Yes, I can.” I said, how do you think you can afford those shoes? Well, they're on my feet. I was able to buy them. I can afford them… without any consideration after they bought those shoes with what happens the next ten days. Right. And so I, I went to this kid who I had a lot of conversations with... It just happened to be he was standing there. I said, let me ask you something. How much do you think your grandmother's car is worth now? She drove like an 84 LTV with May pops. Smoking needed a ring job, and he said, I bet that car’s worth $2,000. I said, okay, so what's my car worth? I'm driving a brand new Denali. And he said, coach, your trucks worth $4,000. And I said. I said, okay. And I said, how much do you think your grandma's house is worth? Now this house is a row house that was built probably in the 30s, falling apart, no roof. I mean, just terrible. My grandmother's house worth $15,000. I said, okay, what you think my house is worth? I been to my house, all right. I lived on four acres and a 4,000 square foot home. He said, that house worth $30,000. And the point is, before you even get to financial literacy, you’ve got to get to financial understanding. Right. And it became clear to me that when there is absolutely no access to exposure to basic, very basic costs, you can talk about financial literacy all you want, but you can't even conceive of financial literacy when you don't even understand the basics of one, the value of things, and two, the value, the value of the dollar, just the value of the dollar. If you understand the value of dollar, you're not going to cash your check at the liquor store for a 15% big. Okay? If you understand the value of a dollar, you're not going to have $300 on you on payday and go spend $180 on shoes, and then only have $120 to make it the rest of the week till the next payday. The problem is, just having access to the knowledge of value, I think. Is really important, and something that we miss because we don't ask the right questions. We don't even understand the plight of people who have no access and have had no exposure to money. So then we start talking about financial literacy, and we're talking right over their heads, because we don't even understand what their baseline is. Once you can explain the value of a dollar. Then I think financial literacy like checking accounts, banking accounts, not cashing a check at a liquor store… all of those things become really, really valuable. I just think often going back to what I said earlier, we start off saying this is what these people need, and we start shoving it down their throat before we actually ask them what they need.

Carrie:

That's so great.

Bill Courtney:

You never understand what they need and to ask the questions, and you arrive at the conclusions about where their baseline is and what the starting point should be.

Shea:

Yeah, definitely. I was going to say it goes back to that listening.

Carrie:

Right.

Shea:

You’ve got to understand where they're even coming from before you can go out and say…

Bill Courtney:

Before you call them stupid, before you say that the most ignorant thing I've ever heard or before, you think, oh my gosh, you know, we need to we need to be honest with ourselves about. Why so many people are in the position they’re in.

Shea:

So we were, our credit was founded by teachers. And you talked a little bit about people can get involved, join together to serve. But what encouragement would you give to people who want to help but don't know where to start?

Bill Courtney:

Listen to An Army of Normal Folks. Every single week you're going to have a guest that is a normal person, not some big half looking guy, somebody you've never heard of. Men and women from black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, Republican, Democrat. Literally every walk of life. Who saw a need in their communities, had a passion and ability and used their passion and ability to solve that need. And they tell their stories. Every guest leaves their contact information. So literally every single show you will get a illustration of something you can do, and you will have the architect of that illustration available to you to call, email and ask question. If you listen long enough, you will hear a story of someone who's done something you're interested in and you just call them up. And through that, join the clubs. And if you join the clubs, you're going to be surrounded with like-minded people looking for a place. We are trying to make it easy. The Pew Research says that only a third of Americans, 34%, is the number, serve in their communities to a level that they would like to, only a third. That's what Pew Research says a big. Big study they did. At the same time, Pew Research says that since 1990, okay, that's only 35 years ago, church membership has declined by 23%. Membership in these organizations the Optimist Club, the Kiwanis Club, the Masons and two others…

Shea:

Rotary.

Bill Courtney:

Is down 60%. So, on the one hand, membership and houses of worship, which are typically very service oriented in communities, and the five largest national service organizations, membership is down in activity, and those things are down between 40 and 60%. And at the exact same time, we have Americans saying that only a third of them are involved in their community as they want to be. So we have this disconnect. People want to be involved, but they're not joining the organizations that help them to be involved. So what we're trying to do with an army of normal folks, is bridge the gap. Is bringing people that want to be involved together with an opportunity to be involved that is simple. We even have concierge service. So a member of An Army Of Normal Folks that shows up to one of the clubs, those had a quick questionnaire about what they're interested and what they like… Stand Together has 900 employees in DC. They take that data, they put it in. And when you come back, we will show you every single nonprofit and 501 C3 within a 50 mile radius of where you live that does exactly the work that you're interested in. So we're trying to help people match up with what their passions are, but do it in a group setting to celebrate work with each other.

Carrie:

That’s great.

Shea:

Sounds like it's giving people that access like we were talking about a little bit. Just having that access so they can make a difference.

Bill Courtney.

And encouragement.

Carrie:

Okay. So this is a financial podcast. So we love to ask what is the best financial advice you've ever been given?

Bill Courtney:

This comes from Philip Spain of Milan, Tennessee.

Shea:

Yeah.

Carrie:

Hey, I'm from Milan.

Bill Courtney:

Well there you go. He passed away 3 or 4 years ago. He was one of my football coaches. He was redheaded. Had all that wrinkly skin from growing up on his daddy's farm. And he's actually in the in the Coaching Hall of Fame. More than anything else… He's in the Hall of Fame of the greatest guys that ever walked the planet. The world's a smaller place without him in. He used to chew on grass when he would coach. Just. I revere the guy. And he told me. Tithe ten, save 30, spend 60. And I live by that today. I think you should. And when I say tithe, I think you should give 10% of what you do to something… church, organizations, 501 C3. And it's again, it's not a nice thing to do. You've been blessed, richly blessed. And it's not yours. It's on loan. And just as you've been blessed, you're called to bless others. So give away ten. Tithe, donate whatever. 30 save. And that does not mean if your net check is $500, that you put 150 in a savings account. 30 save means, you know, 7 or 8% of your check goes to social security, so that's 7% if you give if you put away in your 401K, maybe that's 5 or 6 or 7%. So you're already halfway there. And then the other. So take your gross earnings, figure out how much goes Social Security, how much goes to an IRA if you're not if you're not putting money in Roth IRA, you're an idiot. Take advantage of every single pretax option you have like 401ks, anything like that. If your company has, and if they don't have it, you need to tell them, get them to set up a health savings account because that comes out of gross income, goes to a little card you can use to pay off… that’s savings. All right. But figure out a way that a third of your income is being put away for a rainy day. And that will include a savings account, but include Social Security, 401k, IRAs, investment accounts, health savings accounts, 30. And then 60 – live on that. And the reason I think that's prudent is one, you got to be able to give. Your soul will be fulfilled by your giving. You will be rewarded by your giving. 30% is because you're going to retire one day you're not going to want to work, and there are going to be bad things that happen in this world to you. And if you don't have a little bit of a nest egg to fall back on, if you're a month away from bankruptcy, if you're making a good living and you're paying all your bills, but you're a month away from bankruptcy, if you got sick for a month. You are not being a good steward of your paycheck. Get 30% somewhere and then 60% of it live on it. And, I think if you, I think if you really buy into that notion, you're going to be fiscally healthy. But maybe even more importantly, you're going to be emotionally healthy because you're not going to be sweating dollars all the time.

And that is a significant point of stress that none of us should put ourselves in.

Shea:

I think even starting with that 10% can lead to even more generosity, because you are making that choice to give that and be generous with your funds. I mean, just it creates more because you want to do more, you want to give more. So I think that's important.

Bill Courtney:

Probably true. The other thing is let's say let's say you have a retail store in Milan, Tennessee. All right. Let's say everybody that can in Milan who makes a check, donates 10% to their church or to an organization that helps the needy or whatever in town. All that does is raise people up. And when you raise people up and they're able to do more in their community and pay into their tax base and help grow, well, guess what happens to your retail shop? Guess what happens to your restaurant? Guess what happens to your gas station? You start making more money because more people can pay into the till. Because you've helped raise up the most. It is really not that dumb and it is a not that hard to figure out. And it is a very macro look at society. But wouldn't you rather, on your own terms, give to what you think you need to give to rather than the government? Come in and tax the hell out of you and decide where that money goes and watch it be squandered by a bureaucracy. It's about us. It's an army of normal folks doing what we're supposed to do. And good personal monetary discipline plays into that.

Shea:

That's right. All right. So we talked about the overall picture. But if you just had some change in your pocket, since we call this our Pocket Change Podcast, what would you spend that on?

Bill Courtney:

How much is the pocket change? Qualify it for me…

Shea:

You know, just a little. $5.00!

Bill Courtney:

More than likely it ends up in Lisa's pocket and she buys something with it. I'm in all honest... I'm not a pocket change guy. I, I mean, I don't want to get overly idealistic here with you guys, and I don't even know what your audience is, but you asked, and I told whoever, I've said, if you ask me, I'm going to answer. You may not like it, but I will answer. I view everything I have as a gift from God. I believe even my children are my responsibility to raise and take care of and mentor. But they're Christ’s children before mine and every gift I have is on loan. So if I have pocket change laying around, I have not been a good steward of my blessings, so I don't have a lot of it.

Shea:

So give it. It'll be given away. Help somebody else.

Bill Courtney:

Or or or put to use in my business. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with exceptionalism. I'm competitive as hell now. I'm a football coach. I'm a business guy. I plan on this place. I mean, profits are necessary measure of any organization’s success. I want my balance sheet to be an absolute firewall against whatever comes next. And I expect that people in my organization to make money. That's what we're here for. And if I take money and invest it in my business to make more money and thusly give raises or hire people, that is an incredibly good use of that money. Yeah, that is not is not selfish. That is not greedy, that is employing the blessings, the gifts we have in a responsible manner. So it's not just giveaway money. Maybe it's employed in your business, maybe it's help your children get a better education. Maybe it's take your spouse on a vacation because we all deserve to rest and need to be rested. So I don't want to get over idealistic here. I'm not saying give away every thing you have. I'm just saying put it to good use in some way.

Shea:

That's right.

Bill Courtney:

Be a good steward of it.

Carrie:

Well, I've enjoyed this conversation with you. Thanks for sharing everything with us and we enjoyed having you on our podcast.

Bill Courtney:

It's been an honor and thanks so much, I appreciate it.

Shea:

So tell us, well tell all of our listeners too… you can find An Army of Normal Folks podcast on all the podcast platforms. So check it out. Y'all release episodes. How often? A couple times a week?

Bill Courtney:

Yeah. So Tuesday is the long form. All of our guests we fly to Memphis, so every interview is face to face. They're all edited, music and all that. So Tuesdays is when we release that, and then on Fridays we have short 20 to 30 minute vignettes called Chop Talk, where I read something in a book or see something in the current events that we go on Fridays and we just discuss some current event or topic or ideal that I decide I want to vent on. And then that's what Shop Talk is on Fridays. Tuesdays is the long form interviews, Fridays the shop talk. You can find it anywhere and you can go to normalfolks.us and subscribe to the podcast and find out all about it.

Carrie:

Right Great.

Shea:

Great. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. We appreciate it.

Carrie:

Thanks again. Good luck with everything!

Bill Courtney:

That’s for having me.